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 Post subject: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:05 am 
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Ive been a huge anthony grant supporter since day one. I thought he was a great hire, and i like watching basketball. I enjoyed a lot of Gottfrieds teams even. He was able to make the elite eight one season.
Anthony Grants squad looks abysmal. This is his fourth year and hes running a perrinial lame-ass mediocre squad with absolutely some of the worst offense i have ever seen -- as has been the case since his arrival. Everyone seems to want to give him one more year, but what do you honestly expect? Will you really be even the least bit excited to see another one of his teams? My guess is another mediocre season with a first-round tourney loss at best.

Call me crazy, but i actually want ENTERTAINMENT from our basketball team. What about expecting to have a ranked team once every few seasons? I want to be in the tourney every single year, like Gottfried was pretty much able to do. I want our basketball program to actually have some merit, like florida, or tennessee. Im not crazy enough to think that we can ever be a kentucky, duke, or unc, but id at least like to be where florida/tennessee/ole miss is right now. In four years, cag has made the tourney once, and in his fourth year, is still putting a really clumsy-looking squad on the floor.

What say yee?


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:03 am 
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If we don't make the tournament next year, I definitely think he should be gone.

But I think we will make the tournament no problem next year. I think we'll get to at least the Sweet Sixteen.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:48 am 
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Yesterday I watched several games other than Alabama and UNC because I am a big college basketball fan. Syracuse had a 13 point lead on Louisville at the half. With 15 minutes to go the Orange had a 14 point lead. Then Louisville went on a 10-0 run before Syracuse scored and in six minutes the scoring differential was 3-27. Jim Boeheim, 2nd most wins all time in Division 1, watched helplessly as his team lost their 14 point lead enroute to a crushing 17 point defeat. The sore differential the last 15.5 minutes was 16-49! Stunningly, no Syracuse fans are demanding this old Coot retire so they can get a new HC with experience (He took over as HC young and with zero HC experience). By the way, the 2nd most winning HC in all of college basketball (1st with wins at a single school by passing my Dean Smith) has won ONE national championship. Syracuse fans understand basketball.

Oh, by the way, number 3 Indiana got jumped on by Wisconsin and lost by 13. No conference championship opportunity for them either. Duke? Lost to Maryland. Also out.


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:49 am 
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Read Cecil Hurt's column in today's Yuscaloosa News. Imo, Cecil is the best college sports columnist in the SEC, and maybe the country. His article, as usual, hits the old nail directly on the head! Coach Grant, you got next year to take them to the next step. If not, then that light you'll see out of your front door window one night will be the people coming for you with pitchforks and torches! :dunno:


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 Post subject: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:45 am 
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Tarheelwithson@Bama wrote:
Yesterday I watched several games other than Alabama and UNC because I am a big college basketball fan. Syracuse had a 13 point lead on Louisville at the half. With 15 minutes to go the Orange had a 14 point lead. Then Louisville went on a 10-0 run before Syracuse scored and in six minutes the scoring differential was 3-27. Jim Boeheim, 2nd most wins all time in Division 1, watched helplessly as his team lost their 14 point lead enroute to a crushing 17 point defeat. The sore differential the last 15.5 minutes was 16-49! Stunningly, no Syracuse fans are demanding this old Coot retire so they can get a new HC with experience (He took over as HC young and with zero HC experience). By the way, the 2nd most winning HC in all of college basketball (1st with wins at a single school by passing my Dean Smith) has won ONE national championship. Syracuse fans understand basketball.

Oh, by the way, number 3 Indiana got jumped on by Wisconsin and lost by 13. No conference championship opportunity for them either. Duke? Lost to Maryland. Also out.


I get what you are saying and I don't disagree but Boeheim and Syracuse have earned that respect. That is an abberation, not the norm. As you said, Cuse has won an NC. He knows what he is doing. He's up there at the top every year. CAG has not earned that. He makes the same mistakes over and over. And not against Louisville either. Big difference between LSU and Louisville.

As Chris said, CAG probably makes the tourney and maybe even wins a game or two. Which will buy him more time. Sadly, I think we are just delaying the inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:49 am 
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Im for keeping him for at least another year. We could always go out and see if that other coach from VCU wants his job. :troll:

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 Post subject: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:50 am 
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I have no issue with CAG getting one more year. I was very much in favor of his hire from day one. I have also been critical of him after four years. I think you will definitely see changes going into next year. If not, he knows the consequences. I'm curious to see how recruiting goes during the offseason. Bottom line, CAG is on the clock now. I hope he gets it fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:42 am 
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losing to florida isn't an issue ... it's the other losses and the way they all mirror each other, except for the auburn loss, which is in a class by itself for dismal performances ... he gets 1 more year, which will be his 5th ... by then, if he hasn't improved pollard's offensive play, or the over-all offense of the team, then it's time to get someone else in ...

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:13 pm 
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It's funny how people think another coach would do better than Grant.I'll keep saying it...until TPTB,and the students/alumni does what it takes to achieve greatness in basketball,like they did with the football program,it won't matter what coach is at Alabama.

The University needs a cultural change.One where the "fans" value the basketball program,just as much as they do the football program.

You can't wait for the team to start winning,and then decide to support it.It doesn't work that way. We've got to create a basketball culture,and atmosphere,that shows these recruits that we are serious about winning championships in basketball,too.

I guarantee,if the football games had the same atmosphere as the basketball games,those 4 and 5 star kids wouldn't be signing with Alabama.And in turn,Saban wouldn't have as much success as he's having.

Now,with that typed,I do feel Coach Grant is in need of an assistant that can conduct the offense,and make it a strength,rather than a weakness.


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Cliff Huxtable wrote:
It's funny how people think another coach would do better than Grant.I'll keep saying it...until TPTB,and the students/alumni does what it takes to achieve greatness in basketball,like they did with the football program,it won't matter what coach is at Alabama.

The University needs a cultural change.One where the "fans" value the basketball program,just as much as they do the football program.

You can't wait for the team to start winning,and then decide to support it.It doesn't work that way. We've got to create a basketball culture,and atmosphere,that shows these recruits that we are serious about winning championships in basketball,too.

I guarantee,if the football games had the same atmosphere as the basketball games,those 4 and 5 star kids wouldn't be signing with Alabama.And in turn,Saban wouldn't have as much success as he's having.

Now,with that typed,I do feel Coach Grant is in need of an assistant that can conduct the offense,and make it a strength,rather than a weakness.


it's funny how people think a program that is currently mired in mediocrity would have better results if we had a better arena or more passionate bball fans ... the hoops are still 10 feet off the ground, regardless of the arena ... and fans support winning programs ... duke fans wouldn't be camping out at the beginning of the fall each year if the bball team had never won any titles and went 22-12 every year ... they don't camp out because they have a nice arena ... and they didn't camp out before duke started winning titles and being a factor each and every year in bball ... if fans and arena are all it takes, why has indiana been mired in mediocrity for so long? why was mike davis fired from there? ... what happened to matt doherty at unc? ... they have a really nice arena, and a rabid fanbase for bball ... why wasn't he successful? ... it's just about ignorant to think that lack of passionate fans is why a bball team (or any other sports team) isn't successful ... the football program/atmosphere at alabama is great because it's a WINNING PROGRAM that WINS TITLES and has a history of WINNING TITLES ... did we have a rabid following of gymnastics fans before WINNING TITLES in that sport? ...

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Your attempt to try debunk my point about enthusiastic fans,and top notch facilities being a catalyst for success,by stating that schools with all of those characteristics,still have down years -- is quite the fallacy.It's called "Law of Averages",dude.Eventually,elite programs will experience some kind of mediocrity.It's an intangible certainty.

The fact of the matter is,all of those programs you mentioned have raucous fans and full support from TPTB at their respective schools --and have for years.They invest in their basketball program(s) -- like Alabama invests in its football program -- and in turn,they reap the benefits from that endeavor i.e wins and championships.

You can't separate the success a program has,from the amount of support it gets.The two are not mutually exclusive.Support precedes success,always has.


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Cliff Huxtable wrote:
Your attempt to try debunk my point about enthusiastic fans,and top notch facilities being a catalyst for success,by stating that schools with all of those characteristics,still have down years -- is quite the fallacy.It's called "Law of Averages",dude.Eventually,elite programs will experience some kind of mediocrity.It's an intangible certainty.

The fact of the matter is,all of those programs you mentioned have raucous fans and full support from TPTB at their respective schools --and have for years.They invest in their basketball program(s) -- like Alabama invests in its football program -- and in turn,they reap the benefits from that endeavor i.e wins and championships.

You can't separate the success a program has,from the amount of support it gets.The two are not mutually exclusive.Support precedes success,always has.


support has rarely, if ever, preceded success ... what examples do you have? ... duke fans didn't camp out before K got there ... he built a winning program, then they became the duke fanatics ...

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:51 pm 
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tiderider wrote:
Cliff Huxtable wrote:
Your attempt to try debunk my point about enthusiastic fans,and top notch facilities being a catalyst for success,by stating that schools with all of those characteristics,still have down years -- is quite the fallacy.It's called "Law of Averages",dude.Eventually,elite programs will experience some kind of mediocrity.It's an intangible certainty.

The fact of the matter is,all of those programs you mentioned have raucous fans and full support from TPTB at their respective schools --and have for years.They invest in their basketball program(s) -- like Alabama invests in its football program -- and in turn,they reap the benefits from that endeavor i.e wins and championships.
You can't separate the success a program has,from the amount of support it gets.The two are not mutually exclusive.Support precedes success,always has.


support has rarely, if ever, preceded success ... what examples do you have? ... duke fans didn't out before K got there ... he built a winning program, then they became the duke fanatics ...

Cliff is spot.on, and you're full of s--t.

We hadn't won a d--n thing in football, yet look how many people showed up for CNS's first open practice at A-day. And, he attributes the success of the team DIRECTLY to the positive support of fans.

How many people have shown up to ANY of Coach Grant's open practices? Probably not 1,000 total in 4 years, if HALF that.

Fans don't give a s--t about basketball. That's the culture that CAG is having to battle.

And recruits take notice.

Dumb logic in posts like yours is dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Sgt. Lincoln Osiris wrote:
tiderider wrote:
Cliff Huxtable wrote:
Your attempt to try debunk my point about enthusiastic fans,and top notch facilities being a catalyst for success,by stating that schools with all of those characteristics,still have down years -- is quite the fallacy.It's called "Law of Averages",dude.Eventually,elite programs will experience some kind of mediocrity.It's an intangible certainty.

The fact of the matter is,all of those programs you mentioned have raucous fans and full support from TPTB at their respective schools --and have for years.They invest in their basketball program(s) -- like Alabama invests in its football program -- and in turn,they reap the benefits from that endeavor i.e wins and championships.
You can't separate the success a program has,from the amount of support it gets.The two are not mutually exclusive.Support precedes success,always has.


support has rarely, if ever, preceded success ... what examples do you have? ... duke fans didn't out before K got there ... he built a winning program, then they became the duke fanatics ...

Cliff is spot.on, and you're full of s--t.

We hadn't won a d--n thing in football, yet look how many people showed up for CNS's first open practice at A-day. And, he attributes the success of the team DIRECTLY to the positive support of fans.

How many people have shown up to ANY of Coach Grant's open practices? Probably not 1,000 total in 4 years, if HALF that.

Fans don't give a s--t about basketball. That's the culture that CAG is having to battle.

And recruits take notice.

Dumb logic in posts like yours is dumb.


no, my logic isn't dumb ... it's very sound, much more than your's or cliff's ... instead of referring to a program that's had established success, point to one program that's had only mild success, if that, where fans gave it the support of a duke bball or bama fball program before it hit big-time ... bama's football presence was well established before nick saban set foot on campus ... the turnout at aday was the result of 50 years of football success ... if bama had never had any success, other than a few top tens at the end of the year, those people wouldn't have shown up ... if grant (or you or anyone else) wants people to show up and be rowdy, then put a winning team out there every year that competes for titles and gets to the dance every year ... wimp did, and coleman was full during his run just about every home game ... grant's improved the program a bit, but it remains to be seen what he'll do the rest of the way ... and until he does, people aren't going to feel the way about bball that they feel about fball ... and they shouldn't ...

you tend to tell everyone who disagrees with you on anything that they are 'full of s--t', so i'll take that as a badge of honor ...

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:02 pm 
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I can see everybody's point, but I'm inclined to agree with tiderider on this one. It's kind of a "chicken or the egg" debate. But I really think that if we had a coach that was putting a team on the floor that consistently made good runs in the Big Dance each year and won SEC titles, the basketball support by fans would obviously grow and the money donated for new facilities would be easier to come by.

In the present, sure, I would love to see more fan support and money dumped into new facilities. But if we're always putting a team out there that can't put up 40 points against a God-awful Auburn team and loses in the first round of the tourney every five years, then that's not realistic. And what good would it do to fill an arena to watch your team bomb every year? So what if it brings in great recruits? We're only going to see them regress once they get here.

It all starts with coaching. I'm all for giving Grant another year. Hopefully we'll have a little more depth next year and we'll obviously be a little older, so there should be no excuses.

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Last edited by jambi on Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:03 pm 
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^ Your logic says that CNS is a liar.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:07 pm 
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'Bama is a Number 1 seed in the NIT.


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:13 pm 
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Sgt. Lincoln Osiris wrote:
^ Your logic says that CNS is a liar.

I don't know. I don't really think you can compare Grant with Saban or our football program with the basketball program. They're two different animals. I don't think we can assume all of Saban's Process and all of his philosophies can always transfer over to a different sport. Well, maybe not at the same school. Sure, they would probably work for Duke or UNC basketball. But, unless I'm misunderstanding you, you think if 'Bama builds the latest and greatest hockey arena/rink and packs that sucker out every week, the Frozen Tide will automatically become competitive every year.

My thoughts on that matter are: Saban consistently wins. Grant doesn't. You can't compare the two programs.

Alabama didn't build a 100,000 seat stadium in 1892 and hope that the football team would start winning games.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Tarheelwithson@Bama wrote:
'Bama is a Number 1 seed in the NIT.

Yeah!!! We're #69! or #70! or #71! or #72!!!!

seriously? is that what we want from our hoops program?

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 Post subject: Re: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Sgt. Lincoln Osiris wrote:
^ Your logic says that CNS is a liar.


This is an example of the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy.

Additionally, Saban most certainly is a liar, in the sense that he is not always truthful.

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 Post subject: Re: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:47 pm 
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CrimsonChris wrote:
Sgt. Lincoln Osiris wrote:
^ Your logic says that CNS is a liar.


This is an example of the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy.

Additionally, Saban most certainly is a liar, in the sense that he is not always truthfu

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actually it's not a fallacy .

Tiderider says " become successful, then I will support it"

CNS says "positive energy and enthusiasm from the fans helps build a successful program "

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:01 am 
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Auburn's new arena says hi. From what I hear, its as nice as anyplace in the SEC...yet they finished in last place.

Winning brings fans, fans don't bring winning. Saban likes to work fans just like he works media. Sure its fun to have big loud crowds at games, but Sabans teams beat other teams down in empty stadiums too.

Grants style if to suck the life out of everything around a game. The teams, the crowd, everything. The team shows no life at any point during a game. We have zero plays that would pump up a crowd or a team. When was the last time we had a backdoor cut for a lob to excite anybody? This is how Grant should know when to call a timeout. The minute a player from the other team gets excited about something, timeout. To blame fans for not being loud while the home team stands around for 25-30 seconds at a time every offensive possession is wrong. Do something exciting and the crowd will get excited.

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:54 am 
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Crimson Legend wrote:
Auburn's new arena says hi. From what I hear, its as nice as anyplace in the SEC...yet they finished in last place.

Winning brings fans, fans don't bring winning. Saban likes to work fans just like he works media. Sure its fun to have big loud crowds at games, but Sabans teams beat other teams down in empty stadiums too.

Grants style if to suck the life out of everything around a game. The teams, the crowd, everything. The team shows no life at any point during a game. We have zero plays that would pump up a crowd or a team. When was the last time we had a backdoor cut for a lob to excite anybody? This is how Grant should know when to call a timeout. The minute a player from the other team gets excited about something, timeout. To blame fans for not being loud while the home team stands around for 25-30 seconds at a time every offensive possession is wrong. Do something exciting and the crowd will get excited.



+1 Crimson. Also watching the Florida game was a real eye opener along with several other games this season. With Bama up by 10 one particular player, now I'm not going to bash him because he has made some clutch shots for us and won some games, brought the ball across the time line with 25 seconds left on the play clock, dribbles the ball around for 10 - 15 seconds, gets double teamed and then gets the ball taken away for easy baskets for Florida. He did this 2 times and the lead was cut to 6. Our coach stands on the sideline and not one time says anything to to him. That's the coach's fault. On the other hand Billy D. calls a timeout with one of his star players, think it was #1 doing the same thing and jumps his azz. Didn't happen again. I have said it before and some people agreed. I don't believe Anthony Grant wants to be the basketball coach at The University Of Alabama. However, making 2 million a year I don't think he's going to walk away!!!! :process:


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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:42 am 
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the two of you just called saban a 'liar' ...

:nono:

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 Post subject: Re: At What Point Do We Fire Anthony Grant?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:44 am 
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Crimson Legend wrote:
Auburn's new arena says hi. From what I hear, its as nice as anyplace in the SEC...yet they finished in last place.

Winning brings fans, fans don't bring winning. Saban likes to work fans just like he works media. Sure its fun to have big loud crowds at games, but Sabans teams beat other teams down in empty stadiums too.

Grants style if to suck the life out of everything around a game. The teams, the crowd, everything. The team shows no life at any point during a game. We have zero plays that would pump up a crowd or a team. When was the last time we had a backdoor cut for a lob to excite anybody? This is how Grant should know when to call a timeout. The minute a player from the other team gets excited about something, timeout. To blame fans for not being loud while the home team stands around for 25-30 seconds at a time every offensive possession is wrong. Do something exciting and the crowd will get excited.


Their new arena only seats 9300. I don't understand why anyone would build one so small.
Anyway they suck.

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